Tools for Working Wood

 Joel's Blog at Tools for Working Wood

Thing 1 and 2 Fish  


Since the introduction of our extremely well-received Gramercy Dovetail Saw we have been getting tons of queries on when the next models of saws are coming out. I can finally say: testing is done, they are almost in production, and we like them. Like the dovetail saws, these will have walnut handles, but with a killer etch with more detail than the smaller etch that's on the dovetail saw. It will be a folded back, heavier than the dovetail saw, but with the same attention to detail - beveled edges and careful radiusing at the toe. The prototypes in the picture are totally hand made, with poplar handles because we changed handles designs a few times to test some theories. The production saws will be with the right wood and the etch.
We tested a bunch of filings - 12ppi rip with aggressive 0 rake angle seemed the best, and 14ppi Xcut cut about as fast as the 12ppi xcut but left a smoother finish. the Xcut has a 14 degree rake angle and about 20-22 degrees of fleam so that it will cut quick but the tool is strong enough to hold an edge in hardwoods.

To test the cutting, our intrepid saw-makers hand filed the teeth in a bunch of profiles and labeled the saws "1 Fish" and "Thing 2" so we could tell them apart during testing and just refer to the performance without having to refer to specifics which might prejudice our results. The extra blades in the pictures are from saws blades we tested and decided against. At the far left is a saw without any teeth which we will file teeth on if we need to do more testing - or sell it to someone who only uses power tools.

Once again, we found we preferred a light, responsive saw rather than a heavy backed saw, though one advantage of a heavy back is it reads vertical very nicely. This is a feature that's important, but by lowering the handle in relationship to the back, we got the same sense to vertical without the weight.
Of course the blade is canted which helps even more.

We'll also be selling a kit for this saw. I don't know the prices yet, but with materials going up like crazy, and all the hand filing and hammer setting we know it's going to be a few bucks more than the dovetail saw (which may go up a little in the fall). Still, we hope you will like it as much as we do. Our next step is finalizing production drawings and sending the saws out for a few more tests.

Tags:Product News, Sales, and Promotions
Comments: 7
07/11/2008Ray Gardiner
Nice work, I look forward to seeing the finished product.

I agree on the pitch and rake for rip, zero rake, tiny bit of fleam has worked well in my (non-scientific) tests. Did you consider trialling progressive pitch and or rake in the rip tests?

Good to see, a company that does it's homework.
07/11/2008Paul Chapman 
They look interesting, Joel. We are fortunate that the number of independent makers of top quality saws continues to grow - the demand is certainly there.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers :-)

Paul Chapman
We have played with progressive tooth saws but we in general don't see the point. just using a bit of the saw to make it easier to start isn't really necessary because hand filed saws are easier to start anyway and it makes the effect length of the working part of the saw shorter.
because we hand file you end up with a little bit of fleam and the rip saws - which makes it work a little cleaner. It's not officially part of the design but it turns out that way - which is a good thing.

07/13/2008Peter Evans 
Joel, I have a 28" Disston 12 (1896-1917 vintage) rip saw with 3 1/2 ppi (and so marked on the heel), however the first 8" is filed 4 1/2 ppi. So either a user variation (the saw is in good little used condition ), or a factory request. I notice that 3 1/2 ppi is not listed in the catalogues on the Disstonian. It is certainly easier to start at the toe with 4 1/2.
I was mostly referring to backsaws and have never tried a progressive rip as you describe. However in the hands of someone who needs the extra speed of a 3 1/2 point over 4 1/2 point saw - would the difference in starting be something that becomes a non-issue with practice - so they might as well have filed the entire saw 3 1/2ppi?
Thanks for the update! Very exciting to see that these will be coming out soon. Do you have an approximate time for when they might be available? Or can you say whether you'll have a prototype (or production units) available to try at the hand tool conference in KY?
Congrats on completing testing for another great tool!
07/14/2008joel moskowitz
I can't tell you exactly when we will have production units available. we expect early fall - well in time for Brea. As soon as we firm up pricing & etc we will announce pre-orders.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Comments are closed.
The opinions expressed in this blog are those of the blog's author and guests and in no way reflect the views of Tools for Working Wood.
 Joel's Blog
 Ben's Blog
 Work Magazine
Recent Blogs:
Designing a Moxon Vise-10/15/2014
The Modern Split-10/01/2014
This Weekend: Maker Faire AND The Saturday Market Project at The London Design Festival-09/19/2014
The English Arts & Crafts Movement-09/17/2014
Maker Faire 2014 - Sept 20-21, NYC - My presentation-09/10/2014
Woodwork On The Streets - And Other News-09/03/2014
Ken Hawley, MBE 1927-2014-08/21/2014
King Lear and the Common-07/30/2014
Summer Reading: Factory Man-07/16/2014
The Hand and Eye Blog and some FYI's-06/19/2014
Relentless Self Promotion (and a Small Freebie)-06/11/2014
Lettercarving In Wood and Chris Pye's Free Offer. -05/28/2014
Handworks May 2015, Amana IA - Probably a Bad Idea-05/21/2014
NYC Design Show at Industry City-05/14/2014
Gehard Demetz - Woodcarvings in Chelsea - and Other News-05/07/2014
Festool Domino Sale - Machines and Accessories 10% off May 1 - June 30th 2014-05/01/2014
Automation and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome-04/23/2014
English Mortise Chisels - Mid-18th Century to Now - Part 5 - How to Handle a Chisel-04/17/2014
English Mortise Chisels - Mid-18th Century to Now - Part 4 - Chisel handles-04/15/2014
English Mortise Chisels - Mid-18th Century to Now - Part 3 - The Body of The Tool-04/10/2014
Older Entries...
Some Interesting Woodworking Blogs
Adam Cherubini
Tom Fidgen
Full Chisel Blog
Hock Tools - The Sharpening Blog
Norse Woodsmith
Jeff Peachy (book conservation)
Pegs and 'Tails
The Produce Savant
Konrad Sauer
Another Chris Schwarz Blog
Robin Wood Woodcraft
Rude Mechanicals Press(Megan Fitzpatrick) - Hand Tool News
The Woodshop Bug
Chris Schwarz
Some Woodworking Forums
Family Woodworking
Saw Mill Creek
Wood Central
Woodwork Forums (Australia)
UK Workshop